Hooking up power to a shed only going to have a few receptacles and a light.
I have 30 amp power close by where I use to use for a camper it’s only run off of 120 with 3 wires my question is can I use that for a 30amp subpanel with 2 breakers I was told I can jump off the other leg in the panel to make the other bus bar hot for 120v going to be useing a 20amp breaker for receptacles and a 15 for the light
Electrical – 30amp 2 breaker sub panel
electricalelectrical-panelsubpanelwiring
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First things first: do you see any orange wires, or wires with orange tape on them? If so, you definitely have what is known as a "high leg" or "wild leg" delta system -- based on your voltages, I believe you have this, which was used historically to supply both 3 phase 240VAC and 1 phase 240/120VAC to mixed occupancies, as in the illustration below (courtesy Wikipedia/Gargoyle888):
In this system, the secondary center tap forms the split-phase neutral, with the A and C phases as the normal 120V "hot" legs in the derived split-phase supply, and the "high" or "wild" leg, while normally the B phase (this is from 408.3(E)(1) in the NEC, by the way) sits unused as it has 208V to the neutral on it.
Now that that's explained, to answer your questions in turn:
Typical 6/4 service entrance quadruplex uses PE (XHHW) insulation rated to 75°C and is thus limited to 60A. If you can confirm that the service entrance uses XHHW-2 (XLPE) insulation, though, you can run it up to a 90°C rating, which gives you a 70A (some sources say 75A) max ampacity. The XHHW or XHHW-2 designation is part of the markings on the insulation, by the way.
Is the ALU#4 cable type SE(R) or type USE (also called SEU) cable? SE(R) cable can be used for feeders indoors provided that the bare conductor in the cable is used only for equipment grounding purposes, as per 338.10(B)(2), or if all wires in the cable are individually insulated, as per 338.10(B)(1). However, USE/SEU cable cannot be used for indoor feeders as per 338.12(B)(1), as its insulation is not flame retardant.
Connect the feeder cable to the feeder breaker (either 60A or 70A) in the three-phase panel; connecting a load directly to panel busbars is simply not cool.
While your thought of making it so the subpanel main breaker trips before the feeder breaker in the main panel is appreciated, selective coordination is a much more complex piece of work than simply using a smaller subpanel main breaker than the feeder breaker. Here's an article on the topic if you want a taste of the gory engineering details that you'll have to work out to do this. You can use 60A breakers for both the feeder and the subpanel main, by the way; however, there are no guarantees as to which breaker trips first into a bolted fault (hard short).
You can tap the A and C legs from the existing 60A three phase breaker in the main three phase panel and use them to feed the subpanel; this is the most cost effective approach, and doesn't require any inspection of the service entrance conductors.
Finally, keep in mind that 60A is a very limited amount of current for a single dwelling unit. It can be managed, though, if you are able to run the heavy single loads (dryer, range/stove, hot water, and HVAC) using whatever fuel gas supply is plumbed to the building instead of using electric heavy-load appliances, or if the heavy loads for that dwelling unit are run directly from the three-phase supply -- although in some high leg services, the B phase is limited to a small fraction of the total load, which can make this infeasible.
Is there a reason the utility won't simply replace the obsolete high leg delta service with either a 240/120V split phase or a 208Y/120V three phase wye service?
Addressing the conduit problem, the neutral, and the balancing issue:
I would use conduit bodies instead of elbows, unless elbows are the only thing that fits in the space. In any case, make sure you have no more than 360 degrees of bends between your pull points!
The neutral coming from an overhead pole is on the bare wire in a triplex or quadruplex cable, just about always.
Phase balance isn't typically worried about in high-leg deltas; it's a concern in a wye system due to unbalanced currents flowing through neutrals, which need to be sized appropriately to carry it.
I have a rule: Nobody does things for no reason. 600A is a crazy amount of service, and if the reason for it isn't obvious, figure it out before you change anything. Once you understand that...
Your principle of feeding one subpanel off another has merit. However you must bridge over all the wires together - two hots, neutral and ground. You never pull over a hot and have its partner wires return via a different route, For a variety of reasons. This means if one wire in a cable run is dead, the whole cable run is useless and must be taken out of service entirely.
But I wouldn't focus on the cross-connection yet. I'd try to save this setup. I'm betting it's a termination problem not yet found - it's unusual for wires to just fail.
The bigger problem is: This work was all installed at once, right? Whatever damaged one thing could well be damaging others. Did you find corrosion on the connections you serviced? They're all that way. Don't wait til they fail, because a neutral failing is especially bad news.
As a temporary workaround, like, to get you to the weekend when you can fix this, you might move your 120V loads to the breaker spaces that are working. If you need more breakers, either share breakers (when legal) or buy duplex breakers.
I find almost all such problems are with terminations, perhaps in a splice box you haven't found yet. Don't just tighten lugs, de-energize it and take it all apart and really give it a once-over and fastidious cleaning. If it's aluminum wire (AA-8000-series is legal and OK), apply the anti-oxidation goop. Only then, look at the cable itself.
Somebody who puts in 600A service doesn't cheap out on the installation. There's a good chance your cable run is in conduit, which is designed to make cable replacement easy. On the other hand, it surprises me that cable would fail in conduit, so I'd be concerned maybe something penetrated the conduit, damaging both conduit and wire. Any wire damage seems vanishingly unlikely under a foundation, far more likely in a more accessible place (perhaps a recently accessed place - had any diggers around lately?)
And by the way, it's possible to splice underground direct-burial cable.
If the cable is in conduit, easily replacing wire is the whole point of conduit. They spent extra money as insurance for this situation - use it! Validate that the conduit is physically intact (not collapsed). The techy way is to energize the bad wire (only) and use a detector to find the wire break (by looking for EMFs). That tells you how far down to send a borescope (a plumber will have that if an electrician doesn't).
A low-tech way to inspect conduit is to disconnect the wire bundle at both ends and pull it an inch and see if it gives more than the normal resistance. The "Alexander the Great"** method is to pull the entire bundle, inspect, maybe borescope, fish and pull it back in, and see what happens. Mind you, this is not to continue the old wire bundle in service - but merely to use it as a "test dummy" to test whether the conduit is pullable. If there are any defects in the wire, replace all of them unless it is extremely clear what went wrong.
If the conduit is intact and the wire is bad, this is routine: pull and replace the wires. That job is easier with specialized tools an electrician will have those on his truck.
Wires don't just randomly fail in conduit. This for sure: whatever killed the one phase threatens the others. You'll want to know what that is.
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Best Answer
You can use the 2-space panel as it is. Just split the hot so it connects to both lugs. However you must use a 2-pole breaker, or handle-tie all the breakers so they throw together. Why? You need a disconnect switch, and that's it! And it must be 1 throw action.
One of our crusades around here is to convince people that you are better off with a LARGE service panel, in terms of the number of spaces. That is to say, 2-space panel considered bad; 18-space panel considered good. Why? Physical expansion room. The likeliest thing that will happen to you is that you will run out of breaker spaces. This is an expensive and awkward problem, and it is easily avoided by getting an excessively large panel (for right now).
Saving money is awesome. We'll help you do that here. But the message for now is, a baby panel is the worst possible place you could try to save money! There's very little money to be saved (I joke about "a few latté's" but it's true), and so much frustration and cost when you hit the wall later.
So take back the 2-space and get at least a 12-space.
I'll even say to get a panel with a "main breaker". That becomes your mandatory disconnect switch. The cheapest way to get a 30A disconnect switch is to get a panel with a main breaker >= 30A. (Since you're only using it as a disconnect switch, size does not matter).
In the future if you make your supply wire bigger, it just hooks up to the main-breaker panel. No need for an upgrade!
Hooking up to the disconnect switch
If you got a main-breaker panel, you take your 30A 120V "Hot" wire and split it. That is, you put two 6" pigtails on the 2 hot inputs of the main breaker, and wire-nut that to your 30A input (you'll need a big blue or tan wire nut). Now you can fit breakers normally.
NO MWBCs (shared neutral) circuits! (if you don't know what that is, don't worry about it).
If you got a main-lug (no main breaker) panel, then you'll have to backfeed it. (i.e. bring power "in" the normal "out" of a breaker). Backfeed breakers require bolt-down kits, and bolt-down kits require 2-pole breakers. So split the power to feed both "hots" of the 2-pole breaker. This can't be a $80 GFCI breaker, you can't backfeed a GFCI!
In a pinch, you could use something like a quadplex breaker. Bolt down the quadplex. Then backfeed with the two inner (say: 30A) breakers and serve your loads with the two outer (say: 20A) breakers.
There is also a "Tie the buses together" cheat that can be done, where you run a wire connecting the two main lugs. However, this doesn't buy you anything in a 30A panel. Having too few spaces is still a huge problem.