Plumbing – Attaching hose bib to masonry

masonryplumbing

I have a relatively new house and idiot me forgot to unscrew the hose from the back hose bib over the last winter. I finally got a plumber out to replace it but he just left it flopping around in the wall. I have pex plumbing in the house so what he did was put a pex to copper fitting and bent a soft copper tube at 90 degrees and fitted that to the silcock. The problem is that without it attached to the house there is no counter resistance when i turn the valve on the hose bib. The whole silcock twists and I am sure that is putting stress on the fittings.

I know I have to attach it to the house but I have natural stone decorative masonry and the plumber warned if i try to drill into it that i could crack the stone. This was why he wouldnt attach it to the house because he didnt want to be liable.

Are there any tips for how i can secure this to the house without cracking the stone? Is there something i can do when drilling to prevent this? Could i potentially use adhesive to the masonry to hold it in place?

Best Answer

This thread is two years old, but these 2 links may be helpful.
The first is a clamp that can be fastened inside the basement or crawl at the point that the pipe goes out: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005G8UTUC/?tag=stackoverfl08-20 . If that link breaks, google a Pasco 5023 Hose Bibb Anchor. See here also: http://www.pascospecialty.com/faxspecials/june10_fax_special.pdf

Quick Answer

You will need to feed the lower floor manifolds with 3/4" PEX inlets and 1/2" outlets. No manifold would be required for the upper bathroom as only 1/2" PEX is needed for both the hot and cold, just tee off the 1/2" lines to feed the sink, tub and water closet. All individual fixture runs would be 1/2" as well.

Detailed Answer

Using manifolds and running to each fixture individually is called a homerun system. This can be less labour but may have a higher material cost. It all depends on how far the groups of fixtures are from the manifold. This method is typically used when the pipes are run through the slab.

Depending on the location of the fixtures, you may want to look at a truck and branch system. This is were you would run two mains and branch off to the fixtures as it passes them. The mains would get smaller as the fixtures are taken off.

Water lines are sized so that the velocity within the pipe is kept below a set point. This is to limit the wear and tear on the pipe material. Different materials can handle different velocities at different temperatures. The max velocity for copper and PVC is 5ft/sec for cold and 4ft/sec for hot. PEX pipe can handle a maximum velocity of 8ft/sec for both hot and cold.

Fixture units (FU) are given to typical fixtures. A FU is a design factor that is used to represent the typical requirement of a particular fixture (it is not a flow rate but).

Fixture Units for Private Use Fixtures (no flush valves):

|--------------------------------------------------------|
| Fixture           |    Hot FU  |  Cold FU  |  Combined |
|--------------------------------------------------------|
| Bathroom Group    |      4.50  |     4.50  |      6.00 |
| Bathtub/Shower    |      1.50  |     1.50  |      2.00 |
| Clothes Washer    |      2.25  |     2.25  |      3.00 |
| Dishwasher        |      3.00  |        -  |      3.00 |
| Hose Bib          |         -  |     7.00  |      7.00 |
| Kitchen Sink      |      2.00  |     1.50  |      1.50 |
| Water Closet      |         -  |     3.00  |      3.00 |
| Lavatory          |      0.75  |     0.75  |      1.00 |
|--------------------------------------------------------|

The above table lists the common residential fixtures and their FU. You can see that a bathroom can be considered one group and has a lower FU then the sum of it's parts. This is because they are typically used by one person at a time so it is unlikely that all fixtures will be running at the same time.

Once we have the FUs, we can look up a sizing chart that will tell us the maximum FUs that a pipe of a set size and material can handle while staying below the maximum velocity. You can view these tables in the Domestic Water Sizing Tables (For Small Buildings) section below.

Based on this information, we can size your distribution system as follows for PEX:

|----------------------------------------------------|
| Fixture Group        |      Hot      |    Cold     |
|                      |    FU  Size   |    FU  Size |
|----------------------------------------------------|
| Upstairs Bathroom    |  4.50   1/2   |  4.50   1/2 |
| Downstairs Bathroom  |  4.50   1/2   |  4.50   1/2 |
| Kitchen              |  4.50   1/2   |  1.50   1/2 |
| Half Bathroom        |  0.75   1/2   |  3.75   1/2 |
|----------------------------------------------------|

So you can see that the pipes feeding each group of your fixtures will only need to be 1/2". Each individual fixture would also be 1/2". However, depending on how the groups of fixtures are located relative to each other, you may require 3/4" pipes to feed more then one group. The total FU of your house is 14.25 Hot FU (3/4"), 21.25 Cold FU (1") and 28.00 Combined FU (1"). The Combined FU is used to size the section of pipping from the cold line into the house to the hot water tank. Don't be alarmed that the cold and combined are sized at 1". This is due to the allowance of the hose bib, which our code now calls for 7 FU. This is too high and has been causing issues in large buildings with hose bibs on small decks, in that the lines are oversized and do not properly flow, allowing for growth in the water. Without the hose bib, your cold is only 3/4".

Domestic Water Sizing Tables (For Small Buildings)

Minimum pressure available - 60 PSI at property line. (Greater acceptable).
Pressure reducing valve set at 60 PSI minimum.
Pressure loss for meter (3 PSI), maximum building height 25 ft. (10.82 PSI)
Minimum 0.115 PSI for friction loss. If less than 0.115 PSI, system must bp fully engineered by detailed method or there will not be sufficient water to supply the fixture.

Pipe Flow Velocity Table For: Copper & PVC:

|---------------------------------------------|
| Pipe Size | 5ft/sec (cold)  | 4ft/sec (hot) | 
|           |    GPM      FU  |    GPM    FU  | 
|---------------------------------------------|
| 4"        | 186.65     850  | 149.32   600  |
| 3"        | 106.16     400  |  84.93   295  |
| 2-1/2"    |  74.37     245  |  59.50   170  |
| 2"        |  48.23     120  |  38.58    81  |
| 1-1/2"    |  27.72      46  |  22.18    34  |
| 1-1/4"    |  19.59      29  |  15.67    22  |
| 1"        |  12.86      18  |  10.29    14  |
| 3/4"      |   7.54       9  |   6.03   7.5  |
| 1/2"      |   3.64     3.5  |   2.91   2.5  |
|---------------------------------------------|

Pipe Flow Velocity Table For: PEX, PE, PB, CPVC & Ductile Iron:

|-----------------------------------|
| Pipe Size | 8ft/sec (cold & hot)  |
|           |    GPM            FU  |
|-----------------------------------|
| 4"        |    300          1800  |
| 3"        |    170           750  |
| 2-1/2"    |    152           500  |
| 2"        |     78           265  |
| 1-1/2"    |     44           102  |
| 1-1/4"    |     30            54  |
| 1"        |     20            30  |
| 3/4"      |     12            17  |
| 1/2"      |    5.8             7  |
|-----------------------------------|

Plumbing – How to run PEX to exterior plumbing

Since you mentioned freezing in some comments, I recommend this:

This is a freeze-proof hose bib, complete with anti-siphon valve to prevent water running backwards from your yard into your supply plumbing should the pressure go off.