Does anyone know anything about the newer more durable grouts reacting with stone sealers? I just had Luxor gold stone tiles patched into my bathroom wall and it looks terrible. The new tile matched the old perfectly before grouting, but after grouting the surface took on a gray hue, caused the tile surface to appear mottled, and all porosities took in the grout. My installer showed me the color of grout he used and it matched perfectly, but appeared a shade or two darker on the completed wall. He said it had something to do with the newer improved grout reacting with the sealer he used. He used nanoscrub to try to make it look better and that helped but it is still unsatisfactory.
Tile and grout installation
tile
Related Solutions
There may or may not be an easy answer to your question. I would start by calling the grout and tile manufacturers to get their opinion. In general though... You should reasonably expect to get the quality of service you contracted and paid for.
Bottom line is do you think you're getting what you paid for. Not what you think you paid for. If you hire the best electrician in your area to paint your kitchen, don't expect to have the best painted kitchen in town. If you don't hire someone who specializes in tile installations, don't expect to have the best tile work either. If you hire the best tile setter you should expect to have an amazing tile job. You should always check references and try to see examples of their work from the people that you found them through so you have an expectation on the general quality of their work.
Looks like a 3x9" tile (or somewhere around there) which results in a lot of grout lines. On top of that you want thin grout lines. It all adds up to a difficult tile installation. At what point was the contractor aware of the tile you were using? Was it when you spec'd the job or the day he showed up to lay the tile? Usually there's a little bit of blame on both sides.
I'm just a DIY'er but I would have used more tile spacers than he appears to have used (based on the marks in the mortar not the spacers in the photo) and would have scooped out any excess mortar in the joints and off the faces of the tile before everything dried. There may however be other issues that affected the spacing that were outside his control or the budget for the project.
Things may look different (better or worse) once the grout is in. Maybe you want to put grout in a small section before the rest of the tile is laid to get a better idea. If you're not happy talk to your contractor to see what can be done. Depending on the situation it's probably fair that both parties eat some of the cost to redo (or not.) Or just get a different contractor.
Update
Found this info from the Tile Council of North America's FAQ There are also apparently some ANSI Standards on this.
What is the standard for variations in grout joints?
When evaluating grout joints, it is important to consider that the grout is used to adjust for differences in the following:
Variations in the size of the tile Changes in the plane of the substrate Changes in the thickness of the tile (often this applies to hand-molded tile) Variations in the rustic profile of the tile The standards for the manufacture of tile allow for variation from tile to tile. While the standard details this exactly, it is not uncommon for some manufacturers to ship tile with about 3/32" difference between the largest and smallest tiles in a box.
Grout must adjust for these differences between tiles so understandably there can be some variation in the width of a grout joint.
Generally, it is advisable to use a grout joint at least two times the average difference between the largest tiles and the smallest tiles. A smaller joint will exacerbate the differences between tiles as the human eye can readily see very small differences as a percentage of the total grout joint. For example, while a difference of a 1/16" of an inch may seem small on a 12" tile, this is readily apparent compared to a 1/8" grout joint.
As the plane of the tile changes, the grout joint allows for this change. Should tile go over a hump in the floor, the grout joint will open; when tile follows a depression in the floor, the grout joint will narrow.
Clearly, grout joints also accommodate both changes in the thickness and profile of rustic, hand-molded tile.
Perhaps due to these variables, there is not a numerical standard to which the tile grout joint must conform.
ANSI A108.02, Section 4.3.8 of the ANSI A108 standard says, "Nominal centerline of all joints should be straight and of even width with due allowances for hand-molded or rustic tiles."
ANSI A108.02, Section 4.3.10 addresses variations in the plane of the tilework. This section states, "Finish floor and wall areas level and plumb with no variations exceeding ΒΌ" in 10 feet from the required plane."
However, it should be noted, elsewhere in the standards the plane of the subfloor is required to be similarly flat.
Tile installed by the thinset method is really a surface finish that will follow the plane of the substrate. As such, variations in the substrate will be reflected in the tile layer, unless additional leveling is performed.
yes, if your tile grout is light colored and the dark areas are of an organic makeup (coffee, gravy, etc.), bleach will clean and brighten the grout. I believe it is applied full strength with a paint brush and allowed to soak-in for several minutes. Agitating with a stiff bristle brush will loosen any surface stains. Wipe up remaining bleach with a dry rag and than wipe with a rag that's been lightly wrung of clean water. Dry with a towel.
Related Topic
- Kitchens – KItchen backsplash tile cut too short and grout line too thick
- Tile – kitchen backsplash tile grout or caulking
- Tile – Grout or caulk on tile floor to tile wall
- Water – Tile making clicking noise when stepped on and grout flaking away
- Shower – Grout floor then tile walls
- Shower – Tile Grout: Patch up gaps, or strip out grout and regrout the whole thing
Best Answer
"Newer more durable grouts" is kind of vague. I assuming that the grout was a two-part epoxy, urethane based, acrylic plus silicone, or some other non-cement based grout from you have said.
In my experience these don't react with sealers and most don't need sealing. They are however not so easy to apply correctly. Cement based grouts leave a haze that can taken of with cheese cloth or more commonly now a scotch-brite type pad. The non-cement products have to be cleaned very well from the face of the tile before they cure. Some products, like Custom's Fusion Pro (with is a pre-mixed acrylic and silicon resin combination) will dry quickly and cleaning water (if it is water cleanup, epoxies I've used are not) has to be changed regularly. The haze will stay stuck in porous materials and even with a stripper can be tough to get rid of. Depending on what the stone surface is, and Luxor Gold is a honed finish natural limestone if I recall correctly, it can be "rehoned" with a polisher and appropriate grit to match the existing hone, this is essentially mechan. It makes a mess to do it. If the surface isn't too porous then a stripper can be used (if the grout has a chemical stripper that will work, most epoxies do not) to clean the grout residue from the tile. But since it has a sealer on it, the sealer has to be removed also and natural stone needs to be sealed, after the grout has fully cured, even when many of these modern grouts don't need to be sealed themselves.
To troubleshoot what went wrong, you may take some left over tile and grout and the sealer and do some experiments to see if the problem can be replicated and what the recipe is to replicate it. Then try methods to fix it on the test tiles to see what works best.
TL;DR It is my guess a product like Custom's Fusion Pro was used and was not cleaned well from the surface of the tile before it dried. The fine haze of products like these tend to off from the grout color and usually look pretty bad a day or two after grouted. These hazes have to be either mechanically abraded off or removed with chemical strippers. Some epoxy products do not have chemical strippers and have to be mechanically stripped. Test any attempt to mitigate the problem in an inconspicuous place if possible or preferably some left over test tiles.