My water just all of a sudden stopped working the other day but when we went to check the well pump it was still running, but now he went to check the bladder tank and it is empty. HELP!
Well pump runs, but bladder tank is empty, and we have no water
pumpwell
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All sort of issues here - while there's a short list of things that one normally looks for with extreme short cycling (such as a blown bladder in the pressure tank) that doesn't touch the 90 PSI issue...
If, in fact, water is going back down the well, the check valve in the pump (there is pretty much always one built into deep well pumps) is bad. Depending how your system is set up, there may or may not be another one inside the house, which would also have to be bad. My own system, after considerable reading and opinion-gathering, has only the check valve on the pump 300 feet down my well. When it goes, it's pump-pulling time. That would be the case even if there were others, and others might actually cause that to happen sooner according to a number of experienced well folks, which is why the other one I bought is still sitting in a box, not installed. In another few years I'll put a new pump on the shelf for when this one dies, so it's not a panic buy when (not if) I need it.
80-90 PSI is VERY high and almost certainly indicates a problem with the pressure switch. Certainly on my well the emergency relief valve lets go at 100PSI. On 40 off 60 is usually the upper range of domestic well pump "common settings" (30/50 and 20/40 being the other two commonly seen.) Ideally you'd know what your setting usually is or it may be recorded on a sticker somewhere on the system. You mention it going to the very high pressure when first switched on after being off for a while - what was it cycling between when you found it?
You could TRY hooking up a garden hose and opening that valve, then turning the pump on to flush out the crud that's been stirred up. It's possible-but-not-likely that this MIGHT clear a bit of crud that is jamming the check valve open. If nothing else it will get the stirred-up crud out of the well before the pump is repaired or replaced.
If your well is prone to throwing dirt, you may want to add a "spin-down filter" (I put mine after the relief, but before the rest of the system - this was contrary to the manufacturers instructions - they suggested after the pressure tank - but in line with the whole point of having it.)
Allowing for the possibility that it could be otherwise as diagnosis via internet is imperfect....
I see both a pump problem and a check valve problem here. While they may be located in the same place (if your only check valve is on the pump - which is the way mine is set up) they are not the same thing...though I also see another possibility that would do both.
- Pump problem - pressure not getting above 27 PSI, or 15 with a faucet open.
- Check valve problem - when you shut off the pump the pressure drops to zero - unless you are using water, the pressure should stay at 27 if it was pumped up to 27. When you only had 10 PSI in the tank, there should have been some water storage - when raised to 38, no water could possibly make it into the tank, since that's designed for 40/60 PSI operation and won't take any water until the the water is over 38 PSI.
The third possibility - you have a leak in the pipe above the pump and check valve - so the pressure is limited, and the water drains away from the leak without the check valve being to blame. If you can go and listen at the top of the well while someone else turns the pump on, you might actually hear this leak, if its in the well above waterline. Or you might have a recently soggy spot in the yard if it's after the pipe leaves the well.
While I don't think it's to blame in this problem, I'd also suggest rechecking your tank pre-charge to see if it has stayed at 38 PSI or started to fall again. Often when the precharge becomes low it's not simply a matter of needing to add air - it's a failure in the bladder or diaphragm.
Best Answer
Shallow Well
A centrifugal pump doesn't work when it's full of air. Some of them can self prime with very small differences between the pump and the water level (trash pumps, typically) Normally they are 'wet' all the time. The foot valve keeps the pipe to the pump full of water between cycles.
If the foot valve fails, then all the water in the your water system drains back into your well. (Normally you would have a check valve on the out put of the pump too, which would at least slow this down.)
A failed foot valve is a cheap fix, although a nuisance to do.
However the foot valve may just have stuck. You can try repriming the pump. There is usually a bolt on the top of the pump casing you can open and fill with water. You need to do some arithmetic to figure out how much water it will take. 1"pipe runs about 30 feet per gallon. 1.5" pipe runs about 15. So dump 5 gallons of water (go to a neighbour) and see if the problem goes away.
If the pump is still full of water, then you have another problem.
Break the output connection, and BRIEFLY run the pump. If you now have a gallon of water on the floor, then you know the pump works. If it doesn't then fix the pump. This could be simple: The impeller is no longer attached to the shaft, or it could be that the impeller has died of old age.
Note: If you have a pressure gage on the pump, then if it says you have pressure, you can skip the 'break the connection and make a mess' paragraph above.
If you have water at the pump, but not at the house, then verify that every valve between the pump and the pressure tank is actually open. YOU may not have closed them. But I can just see some 12 yr old turning off the water while a sibling is in the shower... (I know. I did this to my sister. Except I turned off the hot water.) If everything is open, then inspect the ground carefully between house and well head. If you have a wet spot, you know where to start digging.
Water at the pump may also be true with a broken impeller. Water is present, but no energy is being transferred to it by the impeller. This will show as no mess/no pressure.
Deep well with jet pump.
You've got two lines now, and enough depth that there may multiple sections of pipe.
Pull the pipe string.
Submersible pump. (not shown on illustration)
These are usually trouble free. Good thing. Pain to replace. A failed foot valve doesn't affect the supply of water, except that it can put a slug of air into the system, and,in a deep well, give you some awesome water hammer. (Air pressure only will support a 30 odd column of water. So without a foot valve, the water in the pipe up to the check valve will fall back into the well, leaving a pretty good vacuum behind. When the pump next starts, you have a rapidly moving slug of water that travels up the pipe, slaming into each corner it hits.)
Pulling the pipe.
In both of these, you need to pull up the pipe string, and see what's wrong. Note that a deep pipe string is not light. This is something that you can do with a helper, but...
Learn how to tie a pipe hitch. Once you get some pipe showing, throw a pipe hitch around the pipe, and tie the other end to something solid. Slide the hitch down the pipe, as you pull it out. This way you aren't standing there with quivering muscles trying to keep a grip on slimy pipe. Note that synthetic rope on slimy black poly pipe doesn't grip too well. Your pipe hitch may need a few extra turns.
A submersible pump adds 80 pounds or so to the load for a small 1/2 HP one.
It can go a lot easier if you have a front end loader and 3 people. You tie two hitches to the pipe, one to a stationary object, one to the bucket of the loader. Raise the bucket, sliding the stationary hitch down. Lower the bucket. Load is picked up by stationary hitch. Slide the bucket's hitch down. Repeat. Third person moves the pipe away from the well head. I've done this with a 400 foot submersible.
Failed pump.
If you determine that the problem is the pump, then in the interest of family harmony, you may want to just go buy an new pump. THEN fix the old one. This will get water and the resulting clean dishes, food, clean kids, flushed toilets etc in play. If the old one is fixable, great. If not, then watch the sales and buy a spare.
(I'm paranoid: I replaced a sump pump because it was making weird noises. I thought the bearing was going. Kept it though. It sits beside the sump, with a hose clamp ready to be swapped. I also have a non-float switch pump on 60 feet of 1" line in the garage, which may buy me time to replace the sump pump. I also have a 12v pump mounted on a separate line in the sump that can keep up with the flow in all but the worst conditions when the power is out. It has a battery with a smart charger on it.)