I would like you to clarify if these causative forms mean the same.
FORM 1: Have someone do something, MEANING: someone requests someone else to do something
FORM 2: Get someone to do something, MEANING: someone persuades someone else to do something
I took the meanings from the book "Understanding and Using English (fourth edition)" by Betty Azar. Are the meanings correct?
I'm interested to know whether both forms mean the same or not. I'm confused because I heard some people who teach English say that they mean the same. But if they both don't mean the same, they don't have to be enchanged.
Let's look at the following example sentences:
1.
1a. I have John clean the windows. (I request that John clean the
windows – It makes sense)
1b. I get John to clean the windows. (I
persuade John to clean the windows – It makes sense)
2.
2a. I have a painter paint my house. (I request that a painter paint
my house – When talking about
the job of someone I think this
should be the normal form to be used – What do you think?)
2b. I get a
painter to paint my house. (I persuade a painter to paint my house – I
think that this is not the normal case but it may happen)
3.
3a. The boss had his secretary make copies of the report. (The boss
requested that his secretary made copies of the report – I think this
is the correct way to say it because the boss just orders what he
wants someone to do)
3b. The boss got his secretary to make
copies of the report. (The boss persuaded his secretary to make copies
of the report – I think this doesn't make sense)
4.
4a. I had the kids eat the broccoli. (I requested that the kids eat
the broccoli – It makes sense)
4b. I got the kids to eat the
broccoli. (I persuaded the kids to eat the broccoli – It makes sense)
As you can see, according to what I have pointed out both forms don't convey the same. Therefore, they don't have to be exchnged (If the meanings I provided are correct).
Also, I wonder if nowadays native English speakers are using interchangeably giving the two meanings to each one.
Best Answer
The meaning of the two is often similar, but sometimes not. It depends a lot on context.
In a situation where somebody is in a position of power over someone else (for example, in a work setting, where a boss is telling one of his subordinates to do something), they can often be used interchangeably, because they can both be taken to mean to make someone do something.
In a situation where there is not an obvious difference in authority/power between the people involved, their meaning is often closer to the definitions you listed: To "have someone do something" generally implies that you're making a request (and that they accepted or that you expect that they will accept the request), whereas "get someone to do something" implies more of forcing or persuading somebody to do something. Even in this situation, however, sometimes people use the phrases somewhat interchangeably.
Note that both of these phrases are most commonly used either in the past tense or future tense (i.e. "I had John clean the windows" or "I will have John clean the windows"), instead of present tense ("I have John clean the windows"), unless you are talking about a recurring thing ("I have John clean the windows every day"), because both requesting and making somebody do something are basically instantaneous actions in English, so your examples 1 and 2 both sound a little odd just for that reason. In my answers below I've changed the tense just to make it sound more natural:
In the examples you presented:
If you're in a position of authority over John (you're John's boss), these both mean pretty much the same thing. If you're not (for example, John is just a housemate with equal standing to you, but you still want him to clean the windows), then 1a sounds like you're going to ask John to clean the windows (which he'll probably do because he's a nice guy or he owes you a favor, etc), whereas 1b suggests that you're going to find a way to make him clean the windows whether he wants to or not.
2b is a little ambiguous because there's two ways you can interpret that sentence. You can either be using "get" in the sense you're asking about here (make someone do something), or you could be saying that you will "get a painter" (find/obtain a painter) for the purpose of "to paint my house", that is you are going to find a painter who can do that for you.
Assuming that 2b is interpreted in the "make someone do something" sense, then these mean basically the same thing because there's an obvious employment relationship here where you are able to dictate what the painter does (because presumably you're paying him/her to do it).
These are pretty interchangeable (employer/employee relationship).
Again, this is pretty similar. In this case, even though there is an authority relationship here, because eating broccoli is something most kids are not expected to want to do, 4b does still have a bit more of the sense of "somehow made them do it even though they didn't want to".
A few additional points worth being aware of, though:
So, as a result of these points, in example 4, 4a reads a bit like "I chose the kids to be the ones to eat the broccoli.", whereas 4b reads more like "The kids needed to eat the broccoli, so I made sure they did it."