In one fight I want 2 duergar and one kobold to fight my party.
I want the party to see them all and then let the duergar become invisible. Once they are, do they need to roll stealth to sneak up on the party and does the party than roll perception in order to search for them?
Or can I just go with the duergar up to one ranger and attack him (with surprise??)
[RPG] How does invisibility work in combat
dnd-5einvisibilitystealth
Related Solutions
Used to be that RAW, the sniper wasn't getting the sneak attack. Why? No good reason other than that "a legalistic reading of the rules said so." There are no end of huge threads on paizo.com going over in tortuous detail how vision and stealth and all that work in PF core, especially here and here, and the summary was "slavishly following the rules means things that make no sense." You never get sneak attack from stealth because "you can't stealth while attacking" and "it doesn't say you get sneak attack just because someone can't see you, as hidden isn't an official condition (tm)."
I would previously invoke GM privilege to implement RAI - as in Pathfinder they say clearly "the GM is the law over and above the written rules" - and make it so they get their sneak attack. Because it makes sense from a game world logic/sim point of view and you can rule that's more important than the RAW point of view. IMO the clear intent was to sneak-attack someone from Stealth. You know, "sneak," "attack," things that happen in the real world and every previous edition of D&D.
Can I Attack From Stealth?
Now, however, the Stealth rules have been errata'ed to specifically say "you can attack from stealth" which means that yes, you get the sneak attack. See the updated version on the PRD which says:
Breaking Stealth: When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment. Your Stealth immediately ends after you make an attack roll, whether or not the attack is successful (except when sniping as noted below).
Sniping: If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.
So the RAW has been updated to match the RAI for whatever that's worth (apparently it's really meaningful to some, though all my rogues have been happily sneak attacking from Stealth since the year 2000...).
Does A Stealthed Attack Enable Sneak Attack?
Yes, if you're stealthed, your attacks are sneak attacks.
Jason Buhlman states the intent clearly on the Paizo forums:
For simplicities sake, it should be assumed that those making Perception checks get to do so at the most favorable point during the movement of a character using Stealth, to avoid making checks every time the condition changes. Technically, I think you would get a check whenever the conditions change, but that might make things overly complicated during play.
Creatures are denied their Dexterity bonus to AC "if they cannot react to a blow" (CR pg 179 under AC). It was our intent that if you are unaware of a threat, you cannot react to a blow. I think we probably should have spelled this out a wee bit clearer, but space in the Stealth description was extraordinarily tight and ever word was at a premium. That said, I think these changes clear up the situation immensely (compared to where they were.. which was nebulous at best).
They didn't bother changing the RAW because most people use common sense and play it that way. Stealthed = sneak, etc.
RAW + Pathfinder = Sad Panda
This is why, whether you like this or not, a pure RAW approach to Pathfinder is always going to be frustrating; the devs explicitly don't bother to clean up RAW when RAI and/or common sense is clear. It's not a priority of theirs and I for one am pretty happy about that - they spend their intellectual capital making new interesting fun content instead of crafting rules and just retreading the same content year after year like WotC did with 3.5 (Return to the Return to the 1e Module, anyone?).
Here's a somewhat similar question with a relevant answer.
How does the lighting effect the dice roll?
How does vision type impact the roll when its not full day light?
That depends on how dark it is, and what kind of vision they have. Here's the rules for vision and lighting:
In an area of dim light, a character can see somewhat. Creatures within this area have concealment (20% miss chance in combat) from those without darkvision or the ability to see in darkness. A creature within an area of dim light can make a Stealth check to conceal itself. Areas of dim light include outside at night with a moon in the sky, bright starlight, and the area between 20 and 40 feet from a torch.
In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded. In addition to the obvious effects, a blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat (all opponents have total concealment), loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, takes a –2 penalty to AC, and takes a –4 penalty on Perception checks that rely on sight and most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. Areas of darkness include an unlit dungeon chamber, most caverns, and outside on a cloudy, moonless night.
There would be a -4 penalty if you're in darkness, unless they have darkvision. There isn't a penalty in dim light. True darkness is less common than you'd expect at the ranges you're talking about, as someone in the party likely has a light source (unless they all have darkvision).
Low-light vision increases their light range so that they can use a light source that's farther away for dim light. There's a chart in the linked rule that has more details.
Note that if you're attacking someone in dim light or darkness and you don't have darkvision, you can't Sneak Attack because the target has concealment as well. From the Sneak Attack class feature:
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.
Do his friends get to roll to see me and warn him somehow during my approach?
They could get to roll Perception to see you if they're in a position to do so. They do not get to warn him or take any action as this is all happening on your turn, unless they somehow have a way to act on your turn (such as a Ready Action). Technically speaking they can speak on your turn, but I can't remember any DM who ever allowed that as a defense against stealth attacks. The target can't react as it's not their turn, and they still can't tell where you're coming from as they failed to notice you. Knowing there's someone somewhere in the area who might attack doesn't negate the surprise of an attack when it actually comes. (If I did, "I always expect an attack" would basically negate invisibility's surprise.)
Note that after you attack you lose Stealth anyway, so a roll from the other characters except the one you're attacking is likely a waste of time.
If its full day light can I still do this?
This appears to be highly contentions in the Pathfinder world, but as far as I can tell, no. Here's the Stealth rule:
Breaking Stealth: When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment. Your Stealth immediately ends after you make and attack roll, whether or not the attack is successful (except when sniping as noted below).
Now, here's the problem (again from the vision and lighting rules):
In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. Some creatures, such as those with light sensitivity and light blindness, take penalties while in areas of bright light. A creature can't use Stealth in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover. Areas of bright light include outside in direct sunshine and inside the area of a daylight spell.
Bright light means you're not in cover or concealment (without getting it from another source). While the rule says if you started in stealth you can move and you lose it when you attack, the rules also say that you can't use the Stealth skill at all in bright light without cover. If you step into the open to attack you don't have cover, which means you can't use Stealth at all. Since the target is allowed a perception check when it's most favorable to them (see the designer note), they get to make it once you're in the open and automatically succeed.
In that case you'd need some other means to grant the conditions to use Stealth. Some options are spells such as Invisibility, Deeper Darkness, or Fog Cloud, along with feats like Hellcat Stealth.
That's the opposite of what I said before, but given the way that Perception works I think it's more correct. Once you step into bright light your Stealth doesn't work as per the light rules. That means they see you. The attacking from Stealth rules work if you're attacking at range from behind cover, or you have conditions that let you use Stealth.
Best Answer
Invisible is not the same as Hidden
An invisible creature is unseen; a hidden creature is unseen, and unheard, and unsmelt etc. being invisible fulfils the precondition for hiding - that you cannot be seen clearly - but you still need to take an action to Hide: that's why Hide is an action.
If the duergar merely turn invisible then everyone knows exactly where they are and can follow their progress as they move. They would attack with advantage and be attacked with disadvantage but could be targeted without a problem.
If they turn invisible and take an action to Hide, then when they move, only people whose passive Wisdom (Perception) with disadvantage (assuming vision is their primary sense) beats their Dexterity (Stealth) can track them. Otherwise the PC must spend an action to Search, engaging active Wisdom (Perception) also with disadvantage, or attack where they think they are.