[RPG] How to a character detect lies

adnd-1eadnd-2e

In a campaign using both Advanced Dungeons & Dragons and Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd Edition material, what methods are available to detect lies or sense deception, like seeing through a disguise?

The scenario was with a traveling Hag disguised as a Gypsy who was lying to the Adventuring party trying to convince them to deliver an amulet (cursed of course) to her "niece".

There's a "Penetrate Disguise" spell, which would detect the Hag's Gypsy/Merchant occupation was false (as the Hag was strictly speaking a "witch", not a "merchant"), but would not detect she was shape shifted into an old woman. Detecting she's not really a gypsy merchant indirectly notifies the party she's deceiving them, even if her words sound authentic.

There's "Detect Evil" available to both 1st level clerics and Paladins (which is how the party solved the problem) though this doesn't detect lies, it does present a reason for the group to be more distrusting.

"Detect Lie" was a 4th level spell (7th level caster), and being a 4th level party, there was no way they were going to have access to that.

and the spell-like ability to change
self at will. Hags use this last ability to attract victims, frequently posing
as young human or demihuman females, helpless old women, or
occasionally as orcs or hobgoblins. A disguised hag reveals her true
form and leaps to the attack when weak opponents come near. Against
well armed and armored parties, hags maintain their disguise and employ
further trickery designed to place the intended victim in a more
vulnerable position. This trickery can take any of several forms, including
verbal persuasion, leading the victim into a prearranged trap,
and so on. (MM 181)

I gave some other subtle hints (introduced herself as Meghan Greenespire, Meg is the name of the Green Hag from Legend, called her niece Lizabelle, the "Liz" pronounced "LIES")

So im wondering if something like Sage Knowledge: Folklore (witches & hags), or the priest proficiency Observation (both from Spells & Magic) can be blind checked – i.e., non proficient checks for people who don't have those proficiencies, and perhaps what kinds of penalties? I ask because in AD&D some proficiencies allow a check with a penalty, and others don't allow any check at all. Seems like Folklore knowledge would be completely random, while Observation or similar proficiencies would be a check at a penalty.

Best Answer

There were a few spells or abilities that tended to ruin plots without some DM fudging, and fit the bill of what you are looking for:

Detect Lie (reversible)

(Divination) Reversible

Level: 3

Explanation/Description: When the cleric employs this spell, the recipient is immediately able to determine if truth is being spoken. The spell lasts one round for each level of experience of the cleric casting the detect lie. Gold dust is necessary for this spell. Its reverse, undetectable lie, makes bald-face untruths seem reasonable, or simply counters the detect lie spell powers. The reverse spell requires brass dust as its material component.

Zone of Truth

Level: Cleric 2

Creatures within the emanation area (or those who enter it) can’t speak any deliberate and intentional lies. Each potentially affected creature is allowed a save to avoid the effects when the spell is cast or when the creature first enters the area of effect.

Affected creatures are aware of this enchantment. Therefore, they may avoid answering questions to which they would normally respond with a lie, or they may be evasive as long as they remain within the boundaries of the truth.

ESP

(Divination)

Level: 2

Explanation/Description: When an ESP spell is used, the caster is able to detect the surface thoughts of any creatures in range - except creatures with no mind (as we know it), such as all of the undead. The ESP is stopped by 2 or more feet of rock, 2 or more inches of any metal other than lead, or a thin sheet of lead foil. The magic-user employing the spell is able to probe the surface thoughts of 1 creature per turn, getting simple instinctual thoughts from lower order creatures. Probes can continue on the same creature from round to round. The caster can use the spell to help determine if some creature lurks behind a door, for example, but the ESP will not always reveal what sort of creature it is. The material component of this spell is a copper piece.

Apart from that, a rule made official in the early 1980's allowed DM's to essentially create their own ability checks for things like this:

The DM may want to base a character’s chance of doing something on his or her ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and so forth). To perform a difficult task (such as climbing a rope or thinking of a forgotten clue), the player should roll the ability score or less on 1d20. The DM may give a bonus or penalty to the roll depending on the difficulty of the action.