[RPG] Stealth and Sneak Attack Rogue in combat

Used to be that RAW, the sniper wasn't getting the sneak attack. Why? No good reason other than that "a legalistic reading of the rules said so." There are no end of huge threads on paizo.com going over in tortuous detail how vision and stealth and all that work in PF core, especially here and here, and the summary was "slavishly following the rules means things that make no sense." You never get sneak attack from stealth because "you can't stealth while attacking" and "it doesn't say you get sneak attack just because someone can't see you, as hidden isn't an official condition (tm)."

I would previously invoke GM privilege to implement RAI - as in Pathfinder they say clearly "the GM is the law over and above the written rules" - and make it so they get their sneak attack. Because it makes sense from a game world logic/sim point of view and you can rule that's more important than the RAW point of view. IMO the clear intent was to sneak-attack someone from Stealth. You know, "sneak," "attack," things that happen in the real world and every previous edition of D&D.

Can I Attack From Stealth?

Now, however, the Stealth rules have been errata'ed to specifically say "you can attack from stealth" which means that yes, you get the sneak attack. See the updated version on the PRD which says:

Breaking Stealth: When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment. Your Stealth immediately ends after you make an attack roll, whether or not the attack is successful (except when sniping as noted below).

Sniping: If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.

So the RAW has been updated to match the RAI for whatever that's worth (apparently it's really meaningful to some, though all my rogues have been happily sneak attacking from Stealth since the year 2000...).

Does A Stealthed Attack Enable Sneak Attack?

Yes, if you're stealthed, your attacks are sneak attacks.

Jason Buhlman states the intent clearly on the Paizo forums:

1. For simplicities sake, it should be assumed that those making Perception checks get to do so at the most favorable point during the movement of a character using Stealth, to avoid making checks every time the condition changes. Technically, I think you would get a check whenever the conditions change, but that might make things overly complicated during play.

2. Creatures are denied their Dexterity bonus to AC "if they cannot react to a blow" (CR pg 179 under AC). It was our intent that if you are unaware of a threat, you cannot react to a blow. I think we probably should have spelled this out a wee bit clearer, but space in the Stealth description was extraordinarily tight and ever word was at a premium. That said, I think these changes clear up the situation immensely (compared to where they were.. which was nebulous at best).

They didn't bother changing the RAW because most people use common sense and play it that way. Stealthed = sneak, etc.

RAW + Pathfinder = Sad Panda

This is why, whether you like this or not, a pure RAW approach to Pathfinder is always going to be frustrating; the devs explicitly don't bother to clean up RAW when RAI and/or common sense is clear. It's not a priority of theirs and I for one am pretty happy about that - they spend their intellectual capital making new interesting fun content instead of crafting rules and just retreading the same content year after year like WotC did with 3.5 (Return to the Return to the 1e Module, anyone?).

A rogue gets sneak attack die, or combat advantage if at the begining of their action they have cover, or are concealed.

The rogue can charge from behind a wall and get the sneak attack dice, but since odds are they won't really have cover unless there is a tapestry or something like that, most of the cases they actually have to move, and then charge. That move action removes their cover.

However, some skills allow you to move and attack in the same action, and those actions get sneak attack dice.

The general rule is, check for cover at the end of each action. (move, standard, or minor) If there is no cover at the end of each action, then there is no stealth on the next action.

Source: Stealth

Stealth: Free action made after moving into a square at the end of an action. You may use a move action to make a Stealth check in your current square.

✦ Opposed Check: Stealth vs. passive Perception. If multiple enemies are present, your Stealth check is opposed by each enemy’s passive Perception check. If you moved more than 2 squares in the action prior to making the check, you take a –5 penalty to the Stealth check. If you ran, the penalty is –10.

✦ Becoming Hidden: You can make a Stealth check against an enemy only if you have superior cover or total concealment against the enemy or if you’re outside the enemy’s line of sight. Outside combat, the DM can allow you to make a Stealth check against a distracted enemy, even if you don’t have superior cover or total concealment and aren’t outside the enemy’s line of sight. The distracted enemy might be focused on something in a different direction, allowing you to sneak up.

✦ Success: You are hidden, which means you are silent and invisible to the enemy (see “Concealment” and “Targeting What You Can’t See,” page 281).

✦ Remaining Hidden: You remain hidden as long as you meet these requirements.

Keep Out of Sight: If you no longer have any cover or concealment against an enemy, you don’t remain hidden from that enemy. You don’t need superior cover, total concealment, or to stay outside line of sight, but you do need some degree of cover or concealment to remain hidden. You can’t use another creature as cover to remain hidden.

Keep Quiet: If you speak louder than a whisper or otherwise draw attention to yourself, you don’t remain hidden from any enemy that can hear you.

Keep Still: If you move more than 2 squares during an action, you must make a new Stealth check with a –5 penalty. If you run, the penalty is –10. If any enemy’s passive Perception check beats your check result, you don’t remain hidden from that enemy. Don’t Attack: If you attack, you don’t remain hidden.

✦ Not Remaining Hidden: If you take an action that causes you not to remain hidden, you retain the benefits of being hidden until you resolve the action. You can’t become hidden again at the end of that action.

✦ Enemy Activity: An enemy can try to find you on its turn. If an enemy makes an active Perception check and beats your Stealth check result (don’t make a new check), you don’t remain hidden from that enemy. Also, if an enemy tries to enter your space, you don’t remain hidden from that enemy.