I was going to run a Deadlands Classic game, which I've never done before but the system intrigued me. However, I also picked up a pdf of Savage Worlds, and reading through it, it sounds a lot like the Deadlands Classic. Googling tells me there's a Deadlands setting for Savage Worlds as well. What's the difference? How should I decide which edition to run?
[RPG] the difference between Deadlands Classic and Savage Worlds + Deadlands Reloaded
deadlands-classicdeadlands-reloadedsavage-worlds
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To be quite honest, I think this is fairly unavoidable in a group with 6 or 7 people. Just about any RPG with any kind of mechanical depth is going to really slow down when you have that many people; I don't a copy of the Deadlands rulebook handy, but if it has any player number guidelines, that's probably more than the listed reccomendation for group size.
Different encounter design could help - I'm stating the obvious here, but the fewer monsters you're fighting, the fewer actions they take.
I think there are some suggestions I can offer, but first I wanted to check with one of the comments that you have made.
You say that characters with a d6 in shooting can't hit. This seems a little off because the odds for hitting a TN of 4, i.e. a target at short range with no cover, are 75% for a Wild Card. I certainly have players in my games with d4s and d6s in shooting that have no problems with hitting, especially once you take into consideration how frequently a d4 will explode (1 in 4 chance).
Assuming that you are applying the rules properly, I can suggest a few things that will improve the situation:
Melee Combat
Ganging Up - This gives +1 to hit for every ally in combat with your foe up to +4. Even if a character isn't hitting they can assist with giving bonuses to other people.
Push Manoeuvre - This relies on the Strength Attribute rather than Fighting Skill, and allows you to move the target around, cause damage if you have a shield, or knock the target prone.
Wild Attacks - These give +2 to hit and +2 damage, and are extremely effective. Watch out for the reduced Parry you get though.
Smarts/Agility Tricks - These have a similar effect to Taunt and Intimidate, but are more dependent on good teamwork as the -2 Parry on a simple success only lasts until the affected creature's next turn.
I'd try and be as flexible as possible as GM when players come up with ideas for tricks. One of the best examples I've ever had is with someone who grabbed a can of baked beans and threw it whilst shouting 'grenade!' - as a successful smarts trick it had all of the enemy diving for cover
Ranged Combat
Aiming - Do nothing for a round whilst you aim and you get +2 to hit, which is very effective.
Using a shotgun (depending on the setting) - gives +2 to all shooting rolls if you fire a single barrel. Makes you more likely to hit an innocent bystander though.
You've also got double tap (+1 to hit and damage), and three round burst (+2 to hit and damage) with certain weapons.
Other general comments
There are a few general Edges that can assist with low skill combat characters. One that springs to mind is Elan, which gives +2 to any roll you make as a result of spending a Bennie.
Consider giving non-combat characters things to do whilst others are fighting. Dramatic tasks are good for this, but get a bit old if overused. For example, your computer hacker is trying to break into a security system so you can escape the room you're in whilst the rest of the group are holding back the drug enhanced super mutants.
Also don't forget that a successful trick, taunt or intimidate with a raise will shake your opponent, making them MUCH easier to wound. For high toughness creatures this becomes a hugely valuable tactic.
Also, there are a couple of general resources that you might find useful:
Savage Worlds Combat Survival Guide - which summarises the options you have, along with suggestions as to when each of these might be used. It should be noted though that there are a couple of new options introduced in the Deluxe version of the rules, e.g. pushes, that are not covered on this sheet.
Whispers From the Pit - Expanded Trickery - which goes into details about tricks and how to run them as GM. ... looks like this site has been corrupted
Best Answer
There is some pedigree between Deadlands (commonly called Deadlands Classic) and Savage Worlds. Deadlands Classic was a standalone roleplaying game with its own setting. A simplified, stripped down version of of Classic was created as a minis game called The Great Rail Wars. The simplified rules were then expanded into a genreless roleplaying game called Savage Worlds and Deadlands Reloaded was created as a supplementary setting for that system. Pinnacle has talked a great deal about this process and the reasons behind it in The Making of Savage Worlds.
It's worth noting that there were two versions of Deadlands Classic. First was an all-in-one version released in 1997 simply called "Deadlands: The Weird West" that contained stuff for both players and for Marshals. There was also a book called The Quick and the Dead that expanded some character options for players and had a whole ton of expanded setting information for Marshals. In 1999, these two books were replaced by the "Revised & Expanded" versions, which were released as Deadlands: Player's Guide and Deadlands: Marshal's Handbook, which combined the material from the core and The Quick and the Dead and changed a few rules, but were largely the same. The all-in-one book and The Quick and the Dead were not sold in any form since they were replaced.
Reloaded has had different versions as well, with an all-in-one book, a hardbound Player's Guide and Marshal's Handbook, and a softcover Explorer's Edition Player's Guide and Marshal's Handbook. Aside from some errata and changes to the Shaman mechanics between the all-in-one and the split books, there really aren't any changes to them.
All that said, here are the big differences between Deadlands Classic and Savage Worlds with the Deadlands Reloaded supplement:
Character Generation
In Classic, characters are generated randomly using playing cards to determine a character's abilities. In Savage Worlds, characters are built using a point buy system. That said, Pinnacle has released a one sheet addon allowing you to use cards to randomly generate Savage Worlds characters like in Classic. I've never seen anybody actually use it, but it's there for curiosity sake.
Basic Roll Mechanics
In Classic you roll dice pools and take the highest result of a single die (dice can explode). Sort of like the original Shadowrun, but with multiple die types. In Savage Worlds, player characters roll a single die (that can explode). Main characters called "Wild Cards" roll a d6 along with it (that can explode) and takes the best result of the two. Similar to Cortex (i.e. the Serenity and Buffy RPGs), but with more consistent die types.
Target Numbers
As described above, Classic players wanting to make a skill check roll a die pool and the result is the highest die in the pool. The Marshal (i.e. the gamemaster) picks a target number with 5 being normal difficulty, which can be increased or decreased by a value of 2 due to modifiers (e.g. a difficult task might be a 7 TN). Every 5 above counts as a "Raise", providing extra bonuses.
In Savage Worlds the target number is almost always 4 and instead the Marshal assigns penalties to the player's roll, generally in steps of 2 (e.g. a difficult task might be a roll at –2). It's a subtle change, but it basically means the player keeps track of the difficulty modifier, rather than the GM. Every 4 above counts as a "Raise" and as before provides extra bonuses.
Characteristics
There are a number of comparable characteristics for a character.
There is a definite difference in the number of characteristics between Classic and Reloaded, which either makes Classic more detailed or Reloaded more streamlined, depending on how you look at it.
Note that in Savage Worlds, the term "Trait" is used to refer collectively to an Attribute or Skill. Fortunately, this is the only real overlap in terminology.
Hindrances & Edges
In both systems, characters have drawbacks (called Hindrances) and talents (called Edges). They function more or less the same. However, Classic Hindrances had a point value from 1 to 5 whereas Savage Worlds Hindrances have two levels: Major or Minor. Classic Edges also have a point value from 1 to 5 while Savage Worlds Edges do not have point values (they are all the same "value"), but require the character to have certain trait levels or have other restrictions before a character can take them.
Advancement
The first printing of Deadlands Classic said that the Marshal should award "Bounty" to the PCs (essentially, XP) based on how well they accomplished the objectives. The Revised & Expanded version rolled Bounty into Fate Chips (which allow players to improve their roll or soak wounds), where a player can cash in unspent Fate Chips for XP.
Early versions of Savage Worlds continued the tradition Bennies (or Fate Chips, as Deadlands Reloaded exclusively calls them) cashing in for XP. However, later versions reverted to the GM awarding XP at the end of the session based on the PCs fulfilling their objectives.
Magic
It's worth noting that the magic systems in Savage Worlds are modified pretty heavily in Deadlands Reloaded, so that's what I'm going off of. As for the differences with Classic, I could write a whole bunch on this, but here's the short summary:
Metaplot
The metaplot for Classic began in 1876 and got to 1878 by the end of its run. Reloaded begins in 1879 and has recently gone to 1881 in recent supplements. The only major difference in status quo between 1876 and 1879 is that the Civil War has officially come to a stalemate and the fighting has ceased. Also, the Pinkertons formed into The Agency in 1877.
It's also worth noting about the changing role of the metaplot. In the original version of Classic (the one that was all-in-one with player and Marshal stuff in the same book), the metaplot was front and center. The book began with "The Prospector's Tale" that explained several things about what is really going on, giving metaplot info to both players and Marshals. Pinnacle thought that Deadlands would be a relatively short run, so they intended to make the metaplot the focus of the story (and have the metaplot conclude with the sequel setting Deadlands: Hell on Earth).
As Deadlands became more popular and Pinnacle decided to continue the line, they shifted the metaplot from player and Marshal knowledge to Marshal knowledge only. In the Revised & Expanded version of Classic (which split the player's section and the marshal's section into two books, with added information from The Quick and the Dead), the previous introduction was replaced with a more generic description of what most people understood about what was going on (i.e. nothing supernatural) and the metaplot stuff was moved to be Marshal only. Still, most supplements had a Marshal's section that progressed the metaplot in some way (almost always minor and off-camera), with some books like Black Circle being almost exclusively metaplot.
Pinnacle has done more or less a 180 on this with Deadlands Reloaded. While they have not disregarded any of the metaplot that has been established, they've made it take a back seat, some of it having faded into obscurity to never be mentioned again. I think they realized that most of the metaplot had a lot of cool stuff happen off-screen, but didn't really work into a campaign with a posse of six adventurers. So they basically made it a "take it or leave it" approach.
The Reloaded Marshal's Handbook has less metaplot in it than the Classic, Revised & Expanded Marshal's Handbook and the real struggle of what's going on is far less detailed. Also, the Weird West is a bit more static than it used to be: as I understand it, only the four Plot Point Campaigns, which are mega-campaigns for a posse of 4-6, are going to affect the metaplot. Two out of four of these Plot Point Campaigns have been released and right now it seems they are releasing one every 2-3 years.
So which is better?
First off, the Revised & Expanded Deadlands Classic player's guide came out in 1999 (15 years ago as of this writing). All of the Classic books (except for the first printing all-in-one core book and The Quick and the Dead since they were replaced by the Revised & Expanded edition) are still available in PDF form on DriveThruRPG and in both print and PDF form on Pinnacle's web store. But if you want a system that will have new content coming out or you want to purchase exclusively from your FLGS, Classic won't be a good choice.
It's also worth noting that it will be much more difficult to find players who have played Classic before and learning a new system may be a barrier to some players. Since Deadlands Reloaded is just an addon to Savage Worlds, any player of Savage Worlds will be comfortable playing Deadlands Reloaded, so you'll have a much easier time finding players (and if they do need to learn the system, knowing that they can use it for other settings may interest them). Note that Deadlands Reloaded came out before Savage Worlds Deluxe, the most recent version of Savage Worlds, so print out the free Deadlands Deluxe-ified for rules updates (mostly just adding a bunch of new powers).
Assuming you have access to both, the general consensus I've heard with both is the following:
The Creator's Description of Which is Better
As a parting thought, here's what Shane Lacy Hensley, creator of both Deadlands and Savage Worlds, has said about the biggest difference between the two (taken from The Making of Savage Worlds):
On Deadlands
On Savage Worlds