[RPG] use the card “The Fates” from the Deck of Many Things to regain an expended 9th-level spell slot


This is a follow-up question from this question: Can I use Divine Intervention or Wish to regain Wish?

My plan was to use wish to conjure a "The Fates" card from the deck of many things. This would trigger the repercussions of wish, and there is a 33% chance to lose the power to cast it ever again. However, I do get the card "The Fates"; if the spell failed, then I don't suffer the repercussions, and I still have my 9th-level spell slot to try something else with.

If I conjure my Fates card, and fail the 33% chance check and can never cast wish again, can I use my Fates card to have never cast wish in the first place?

This effectively would give me back my spell slot and allow me to cast wish again.

If this is possible, I can put my devious plan into action: get 2 Fates cards by wishing and repeating, then whenever I fail a wish check, I can throw one Fates card at it to recast, and then use the other to generate a second Fates card.

Can the Fates card undo the casting of a spell to regenerate the spell slot that was used to create the card?

Relevant information:

The Fates. Reality's fabric unravels and spins anew, allowing you to avoid or erase one event as if it never happened. You can use the card's magic as soon as you draw the card, or any other time before you die.

To clarify, my confusion comes from the almost paradoxical effect. Say I get the card from wish, but are never able to cast it again, and I use the card to undo its own creation… Or is that too complex for 5e to be worrying about?

Best Answer


This is the kind of rules lawyering that will get such a wide range of responses depending on each table that it is best left as a thought experiment.

As a pure thought experiment, I can agree that provided you ignore the time paradox of using thing B to undo action A that gave you thing B in the first place, then this should work. And fantasy/sci-fi media is full of time paradoxes where it is best not to worry about those details and just enjoy the special effects and outrageous story.

As a DM, I would just say "don't go there" because the end result is too game breaking (a supply of Fate cards only limited by your willingness to abuse a possible rules loophole), so I'd have no choice but to shut it down whatever the correct RAW reading was. There are multiple ways to shut this down, and I'd be supported by the rules for non-standard uses of Wish:

The DM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong.

There is no need for a DM to be consistent here, and "something goes wrong" can be any suitable effect. This even allows for the DM to let the request work the first time, then shut down any re-try once they have figured out the trick you are attempting.