[RPG] What happens if a commoner takes a prestige class

character-advancementdnd-3.5epathfinder-1e

I'm currently in a 3.5/pathfinder campaign. (Mostly 3.5, but since it's steampunk we're borrowing liberally from pathfinder as we find the need.) We started as commoners, the idea being that we would gain base classes as we began to act like heroes, and as circumstances warranted. Our fighter killed a wyrmling, gaining his levels. The rogue seems to have acquired his from an artifact of some kind (He's being a bit cagey, but keeps making a point to sneak before beginning a fight.) The rule somebody remembered (and nobody challenged) was that if a commoner advanced to a base class, you replaced all previous levels with levels of your new class. It made more sense than multiclassing, and fit with the notion of warriors becoming fighters and suchlike. I can't find anything in the core book that speaks to the issue, so that's part of my question- what actually happens when a commoner advances to a base class?

But the important part, the previous question being merely a prerequisite, (whatever the ruling, we aren't changing how we do that now) is what happens if a commoner tries to advance straight to a prestige class? I just noticed that Shadowdancer, which would fit my character just fine, just has skill and feat prerequisites. I'm an int based human, that's pretty easy. Can I just jump straight into a prestige class from commoner?

Best Answer

Sure you can, as long as you meet the prestige class’s prerequisites. The Commoner class does not have any special rules about its advancement, it’s just a particularly weak base class.

It’s actually the easiest way to enter the Survivor prestige class (Savage Species), which requires that one’s highest base save bonus be lower than one’s character level. In a similar case, the Adept is the easiest way to enter the Hexer prestige class (Masters of the Wild), since it requires lightning bolt as a divine spell, and neither clerics nor druids get it, nor is it found on any Domain (amazingly).

I would comment that a common way to handle games where you start as Commoners is to have you “trade in” Commoner levels for PC-class levels, to avoid you taking pretty serious hits to your abilities relative to your nominal ECL. This is a non-issue if your DM knows how to compensate, but it might be worth mentioning as an idea to your DM.

Some swallow whole options for dnd-3.5e

While the question already briefly addresses some of these options, they're are some that are nonetheless worth examining in greater detail.

While the 2nd-level Sor/Wiz spell alter self [trans] (PH 197) largely prohibits the subject from gaining the assumed form's extraordinary special attacks, the 4th-level Sor/Wiz spell polymorph [trans] (PH 263) et al. do not, making access to an effect like the spell polymorph by far the easiest way to acquire the extraordinary ability swallow whole.

The most convenient way of acquiring such an effect is likely the phylactery of change (Arms and Equipment Guide 135) (11,200 gp; 0 lbs.) that grants the wearer 1/day the ability to use an effect like the spell polymorph as a level 7 caster except with an unlimited duration. Likely unbalanced in contemporary play, the phylactery predates the 3.5 revision therefore is subject to "minor adjustments" by the DM (Dungeon Master's Guide 4). Compare the phylactery with, for example, the skin of proteus (Expanded Psionics Handbook 176) (84,000 gp; 2 lbs.) that grants the wearer at will the ability to use an effect like the psionic power metamorphosis (which likewise can grant the ability swallow whole) as a level 7 manifester.

The remorhaz (Monster Manual 214-15) is a Huge magical beast with 7 Hit Dice, a +11 natural armor bonus, and a burrow speed in addition to the special attacks improved grab and swallow whole, making it a decent form for the aspiring swallower save for the creature's lack of additional attacks, nonhumanoid shape, and inability speak.
As the druid supernatural ability wild shape (PH 36) is based on the supernatural ability alternate form (Monster Manual 305), it grants the creature the assumed form's extraordinary special attacks, including the extraordinary ability swallow whole). Nondruidic wild shape alternatives are provided in answers to this question.

Inconveniently, so far as I'm aware, there is no creature of precisely 5 Hit Dice that's Medium or Small, possesses the animal type, and possesses the ability swallow whole. However, to start off, there is the 2-HD Medium giant toad (Oriental Adventures 195-6) and the 4-HD Medium dire toad (Monster Manual II 42, 46). (Oddly, the 3-HD Medium giant frog (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil 158) is a magical beast.)
Elegant yet highly controversial is, as a level 10 or higher rogue, taking with the class feature special ability—instead of, for example, the special ability improved evasion—the simply-named special ability feat to gain the monstrous feat Gape of the Serpent (Serpent Kingdoms 663), bypassing its prerequisites.

The special ability feat says, in its entirety, "A rogue may gain a bonus feat in place of a special ability" (PH 51), and the vast majority read the special ability feat as the creature still needing to meet the feat's prerequisites. However, a much smaller minority point to the omission of any mention of prerequisites and to the Monster Manual on Feats (7) as proof that the creature need not meet the picked bonus feat's prerequisites (cf. the fighter's class feature bonus feats ("A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat" (PH 38)), the monk's class feature bonus feat ("A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats…" (PH 41)). Most DMs, I assume, are in the majority.

This author is not taking sides on this issue, but, instead, merely presenting the concept that there's a possibility that the DM may rule that the rogue special ability feat doesn't require the creature to meet the picked feat's prerequisites. Flame wars over this issue have plagued the game since its publication. This author suggests approaching the DM with this possibility cautiously, perhaps after the DM's had a few drinks. Further, this player recommends not abusing it if it is allowed. If the DM says Sure, go ahead and take any ol' feat with the feat special ability, the player should strongly consider picking a dumb but fun and difficult-to-acquire feat like Gape of the Serpent (or, for example, the feat Baleful Moan (Libris Mortis 24-5) or Touch of Hate (Player's Guide to Faerûn 177)) rather than, for example, a potential or actual gamebreaker like Epic Spellcasting (EL 55) (for a rogue 10/sha'ir 1 (Dragon Magazine Compendium, Volume 1 51-7), obviously); Mark of Avernus (Fiendish Codex II 84); Metamorphic Transfer (XPH 48); or Perfect Multiweapon Fighting (EL 64).

(For comparison, the equivalent Pathfinder version of D&D 3.5e rogue special ability feat is the rogue advanced talent feat that eliminates ambiguity by instead saying, "A rogue may gain any feat that she qualifies for….")
The challenging prerequisites for the monstrous feat Snatch and Swallow (Draconomicon 73-4) make it among the least likely ways to get the special ability swallow whole: the general feat Snatch (Monster Manual 304), Improved Snatch (Dr 71), Constitution 19 or higher, the type dragon, and the size category Huge. While it's an inelegant way to acquire the feat, the feat can be acquired with minimum shenanigans. That does not mean that the DM will appove every step!! Everything book-legal isn't also table-right.

For example, a human Clr1 that possesses the template half-minotaur (Dragon #313 94-5) so that she retains her humanoid type but has the size category Large and that's been affected by the 1st-level Sor/Wiz spell enlarge person [trans] (PH 226-7) followed by the 5th-level Sor/Wiz spell permanency [univ] (PH 259-60) (costing at least 2,960 gp) so her size category is Huge and that possesses Constitution 19 or higher (hence at least Con 13 before modifications) and the feat Skill Focus (Diplomacy) (PH 100) and that takes the domain Hunger (Spell Compendium 275) so that she gets a bite attack finally meets the prerequisites for (and can use!) the feats Snatch and Improved Snatch. Then it's a matter advancing a level while the subject of the 2nd-level Sor-only spell essence of the dragon [trans] (Races of the Dragon 112-13) so her type is dragon and taking as that level, for example, the first level of marshal (Miniatures Handbook 11-13) because "[i]f [she] already has the feat [Skill Focus (Diplomacy)], [s]he can choose a different" feat and taking the elusive feat Snatch and Swallow.

All told, with an exceptionally ridiculous character background and 260 gp of debt, a buck naked just-entering-play half-minotaur human cleric 1/marshal 1 (ECL 3) that takes 1 flaw could have the feat Snatch and Swallow. However, to actually use the feat would require first drinking a potion of essence of the dragon (2nd-level spell at caster level 4) (400 gp; 0.1 lbs.) or another method of regaining the type dragon like, for instance, employing a similar wand (again, 2nd-level spell at caster level 4) (120 gp/charge) somehow (for example, the granted power of the domain Magic (PH 188) is of no help with such a wand) or mucking about with the feat Momentary Alteration (Unearthed Arcana 94) as described in this answer.
The 8th-level Gluttony and Hunger domains spell bite of the king [necro] (Spell Compendium 28) does, indeed, "send a creature to a pocket 'stomach' dimension with a successful melee touch attack" if the creature fails its Fortitude saving throw, but when it "successfully exits [it] appears to cut its way free from thin air, appearing in a space adjacent to" the caster, so it's only sort of like the ability swallow whole.

The even more spectacular alternative is the 8th-level Sor/Wiz spell swallow [conj] (Dragon #323 66) that has "a horrific visual effect as [the caster's] mouth distends, swallowing the target and banishing it to a… chamber with constricting, pulpy walls." While similar to (and likely intended to be replaced by) the spell bite of the king, the spell has no saving throw and a target that frees itself from the chamber reappears, instead, where the swallow spell was cast.

Some swallow whole options for pathfinder

The spells beast shape I et al. never grant a Pathfinder creature the universal monster ability swallow whole. By extension, the special ability swallow whole is granted by neither the spell polymorph et al. nor, for example, a druid's supernatural ability wild shape. But, the difficult summoner archetype synthesist—who wears an eidolon like a battlesuit—can himself, essentially, swallow whole using the the 3-point evolution of the same name. (Best not to ask where such a swallowed foe goes.) Beyond this, though, are a few other Pathfinder options.

The witch archetype gingerbread witch—I swear I am not making this up—in addition to being able to conjure candy, smell children, and heal its familiar by baking it, gains at level 12 the extraordinary ability gruesome gobbler, which gives the witch

a bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage for a Medium witch. As a full-round action, [the gingerbread witch] can make a single bite attack that deals double base damage (2d6 for a Medium witch) and functions as if she had the grab and swallow whole special attacks, allowing her to grab and swallow a creature of her size or smaller.

The special ability is complicated—it's over 250 words!—, but it does what's required with the minimum of shenanigans. That the archetype is icky is probably beside the point: is there a pleasant way to swallow whole?
The ogre as a race has a Race Point (RP) value of 23, within spitting distance of the aasimar (15 RP), android (16 RP), fetchling (17 RP), wyrwood (20 RP), and wyvaran (17 RP), so a generous GM may allow into a group of PCs that've already picked such powerful races a creature slightly more powerful like this one. While the feat's prerequisites are steep—typically Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple (hence also Dex 13) in addition to being a Large ogre—, the feat Gluttonous Gobbler has the following benefit:

If you start your turn grappling another creature at least two size categories smaller than you, you can put the grappled creature in your mouth as a move action and attempt another grapple combat maneuver check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If you succeed, you swallow the opponent as if you had the swallow whole special ability.

It's apparent, however, that the feat wasn't fully playtested: The extraordinary ability swallow whole says, "The amount and type of damage [dealt to a swallowed foe] varies and is given in the creature’s statistics," yet that information's absent. The GM must make some decisions even though the feat technically exists.

Also see the feat Racial Heritage (Human)—ogre is an option as Pathfinder giants are a subtype of humanoid—, allowing a very complicated human to pick up eventually the feat Gluttonous Gobbler. Also see the third-party race half-ogre, who (like the aforementioned complicated human) needs a permanent enlarge person before he can take the feat Gluttonous Gobbler.

[RPG] Prestige Classes for a stealthy Barbarian/Rogue

This winds up getting away from the idea of the hulking thug rogue/barbarian; the solitary barbarian level is used to grant mobility and agility rather than strength and endurance. That said, this is a very vicious combat build with lots of dirty tricks, very capable of pouncing on opponents unawares and tearing into them in an unholy frenzy.

The Assassin

For a low-optimization, low-magic campaign, where you want to focus on stealth and skills but still be able to deal the hurt, you could do a lot worse than the core assassin prestige class. It gets a number of low-level spells, so it should not be a problem for low-magic, but if there’s little magic available, you definitely want what little you can get.

If alignment is an issue, consider the avenger: it replaces the Evil requirement with a Non-Chaotic requirement, which is often much more amenable to characters.

Spells

Spells are the reason you go this route. The assassin spell list is quite solid, for as small a list as it is, and it will likely fly well in a low-magic game.

This recommendation does assume that you have access, at the least, to Spell Compendium. The core assassin spell list leaves a lot to be desired. If you want to use the avenger, also make sure your DM is OK with adding the Spell Compendium assassin spells to the avenger list. That’s in line with the guidance in that book for non-core spellcasting classes on pg. 3, so it shouldn’t be a problem, but it’s a conversation you should have.

Psionics

The psionic assassin from Secrets of Sarlona also exists, and adds the very interesting option of using Expanded Knowledge for psionic minor creation, which is an excellent way to get poisons. That said, unless your DM allows other assassin spells to be converted into psionic counterparts, it’s not a great option. If you can, then you might as well?

Death Attack

Don’t focus too much on Death Attack; at best you can attempt it during a surprise round after spending three rounds studying your target out of combat. Attempting to hide and wait three rounds mid-combat is always a bad play.

Poison Use

Poison Use is meh; if you want to use poison, you want the Master of Poisons feat from Drow of the Underdark anyway. That said, Master of Poisons is a quite-solid feat, and Craft (poisonmaking) can get you poison at a huge discount (if you have a source of materials, ⅙ market price). Poisons provide a way to apply debilitating effects along with straight damage. See the Arsenic and Old Lace handbook for more details if you’re interested in going for poisons.

Again, if you are avoiding being Evil, you have to clarify something with the DM: poisons, according to Player’s Handbook and Dungeon Master’s Guide, are not evil, though usually illegal (and always dishonorable, which is why they are barred to paladins). Book of Exalted Deeds, however, says they are actually Evil – and then gives a definition/explanation of how and why they’re Evil that would include, for example, the natural poison of the couatl, that is, a notably Good creature. Book of Exalted Deeds is not a good book. Just make sure, if you don’t want to be Evil, that your DM agrees that Book of Exalted Deeds is stupid, and poisons aren’t any more inherently evil than swords.

Hide in Plain Sight

It’s a long time coming, but getting Hide in Plain Sight, along with taking the Darkstalker feat from Lords of Madness, will prevent a lot of the major ways to simply shut down your stealth. Highly recommended.

The Black Dog

This prestige class from Dragonmarked stacks with assassin levels for Death Attack DCs, and has a couple of excellent abilities aimed at poison. I’ve decided that poison is a good direction to take this, hence its appearance here.

The black dog requires the Mark of Hospitality feat, which in Eberron is limited to halflings. This is a matter of setting fluff, so if you aren’t playing in Eberron, the Mark of Hospitality might be available to half-orcs. On the other hand, I actually like halfling a great deal more than half-orc here. It does mean a shift from Strength to Dexterity which you may find undesirable, but half-orc is quite weak, and the halfling’s size is basically all to your benefit (average of −1 on damage rolls, but +1 attack, +4 to stealth, and +1 to AC). The existence of the strongheart halfling (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting) really seals that deal.

Suggested Build

Strongheart Halfling Rogue 3/Barbarian 1/something 1/Black Dog 5/Assassin 10

At Rogue 2, the Penetrating Strike alternate class feature (Dungeonscape) is key, and at Barbarian 1, you really want the Lion Spiritual Totem alternate class feature (Complete Champion) to get Pounce instead of Fast Movement (you’re not a charger per se, but you do want to maintain mobility and full-attacks, and pounce is a really good way to do that).

I’d replace Rage with Ferocity, though I’d also consider Whirling Frenzy.

The something 1 I’m not sure about; barbarian 2 is OK but not great, rogue 4 is fairly mediocre...

Some options that should be no problem:

Fighter. You want Weapon Finesse at this point, so that’s a use for your bonus feat, and the Hit-and-Run Tactics alternate class feature from Drow of the Underdark trades some armor and shield proficiency you probably won’t use for +2 to initiative and Dex-to-damage vs. flat-footed foes, which is awesome.
Ranger. Simple: full BAB and 6+Int skills. Boring, but functional.
Anything that gives Sneak Attack +1d6 at first level. Again, boring, but functional.

Some options that probably aren’t allowed, but could be awesome:

Cleric. Best single-level dip in the game, bar none. Could be worth it even if you get none of its spells. Domain granted powers are awesome, and failing that you can trade them for Devotion feats (Complete Champion), many of which are excellent. Turn/Rebuke Undead is excellent for Divine feats, including the amazing Lolth’s Caress (Drow of the Underdark). While a halfling who worships Lolth is weird, with this build’s interest in poison it’s not a stretch to worship the goddess of spiders. Or if Lolth doesn’t exist in your setting, maybe you can just ignore that requirement.
Ardent or Psion. One level is sufficient to manifest psionic minor creation, which will get you a plant-based poison that lasts an hour. Not a bad deal at all.
Swordsage. Cloak of deception provides instant flat-footing for an enemy, once per encounter, while shadow jaunt provides great mobility. Wolf fang strike and sudden leap allow you to continue to dual-wield effectively even when you’re forced to move and cannot charge. If you later take Martial Stance, you can snag assassin’s stance for +2d6 Sneak Attack damage.

Anyway, you definitely want the Craven (Champions of Ruin), Darkstalker (Lords of Madness), Master of Poisons (Drow of the Underdark), and Weapon Finesse feats. Plus, black dog requires Mark of Hospitality (Eberron Campaign Setting).

The feats Extra Rage (Complete Warrior) and Wild Cohort could be very nice for you, if you can squeeze them in (maybe later, or if you take a Fighter level and have another feat to play with). Note that I don’t recommend Wild Cohort so you have a pet fighting alongside you: I recommend it so you have a reliable, cheap poison dispenser following you around. Unfortunately, both feats are kind of lackluster by the time they fit into the build I am proposing.

Anyway, your feats may look like this:

Bonus racial feat: Weapon Finesse
1st-level feat: Master of Poisons
3rd-level feat: Mark of Hospitality
6th-level feat: Darkstalker
9th-level feat: Craven
12th-level feat: Extra Rage?
15th-level feat: Wild Cohort?

With this combination, your attacks hit hard, and you are hard to find. You have poisons that you can use selectively, and they are very dangerous. You have a smattering of spells that will make a huge difference in a low-magic world. Seems like a pretty solid approach to me.