I've seen a few questions mentioning things like "paragon tier" or "epic tier". What are tiers? What game(s) are they used in ? How do they translate to D&D 3.5/Pathfinder Levels?
[RPG] What’s with this tier stuff, and how does that translate to levels
dnd-3.5ednd-4eepic-tierparagon-tierpathfinder-1e
Related Solutions
First, some formulas:
Base: 10+HalfLevel
- AC: ((Dex||Int Mod + LightArmor) || (HeavyArmor) ) + Class Bonuses + Feat + Floor(Level/5) + Shield
- Fort: ((Str||Con Mod + ArmorMod) ) + Class Bonuses + Feat + Floor(Level/5)
- Reflex: ((Dex||Int Mod + LightArmor) || (HeavyArmor) ) + Class Bonuses + Feat + Floor(Level/5) + Shield
- Will: ((Wis||Cha Mod + ArmorMod) ) + Class Bonuses + Feat + Floor(Level/5)
For purposes of the following chart, I'll be assuming either heavy shield or no shield.
The three general types of armor for a defender are: hide, scale, and plate.
Hide progression (assuming boosting the off-stat and enhancement bonus. Level 1 should be 1 point lower, but I'm assuming the standard armor drop off of one of the first few adventures.):
AC Level Armor Dex||Int Enhancement 17 1 3 16 1 21 6 3 17 2 25 11 3 19 3 31 16 4 20 4 35 21 4 22 5 40 26 5 23 6
Scale Progression
AC Level Armor Enhancement 18 1 7 1 23 6 8 2 27 11 9 3 32 16 10 4 36 21 11 5 42 26 13 6
Plate Progression
AC Level Armor Enhancement 19 1 8 1 24 6 9 2 28 11 10 3 33 16 11 4 37 21 12 5 43 26 14 6
Hide will almost always have a shield. Therefore, at the 6 equipment tiers we get:
1) AC: 19-21 (no feats) 6) AC: 23-26 (no feats) 11) AC: 27-32 (optional Armor specialization, Shield specialization) 16) AC: 33-37 (optional Armor specialization, Shield specialization) 21) AC: 37-41 (optional armor spec, shield spec, second skin) 26) AC: 42-47 (optional armor spec, shield spec, second skin)
Swordmages are slightly more special, as they are leather wearers, but they have class features which approximate hide or better.
NADs are far more variable, anywhere from 7 points under AC to 1-2 points over, depending on class, race, and feats. Aim for 2 points lower on 2 NADs, on average, as that's what monsters are geared to hit. It is virtually impossible to get 2 lower on all three without making difficult sacrifices in efficiency.
For interest, here are the chances of being hit at each level, assuming least and best AC.
Level LowAC HighAC Monster Low High ToHit Odds Odds 1 19 21 6 0.35 0.25 6 23 26 11 0.4 0.25 11 27 32 16 0.45 0.2 16 33 37 21 0.4 0.2 21 37 41 26 0.45 0.25 26 42 47 31 0.45 0.2
As a postscript, the related question of whether or not plate resist is worth it is easy to answer: -1 AC for, tier wise: Resist 1, 2,5
A monster at level 6 will be hitting around 30% of the time for around 14 damage, or a total damage per round of 4.2. At 35% and 13 damage, it does 4.55.
At level 16, 30% of the time for 24 damage = 7.2 versus 7.7
At level 26, 10.2 versus 10.15.
The other side of this is that the resist works on all attacks, and so it's a function of the game and GM preference for certain types of monsters.
No, not really.
Frank and K’s Tome Fighter, and the other entries in their “Races of War” tome, is the only attempt I’m aware of. And it certainly is powerful, occasionally broken in ways that even existing Tier-1 classes are not. But they don’t have even remotely the versatility that a Tier-1 class should have. The tome fighter can kill anything, and it would be very difficult to stop him from doing so, but he remains relatively useless at solving any problem that requires something other than killing.
That’s basically still Tier 4, just taken to an absurd extreme. The improved skills, and some of the options made available by feats, probably justify a bump up to Tier 3, that is, he’s not completely useless outside his specialty, but really the Tiers as defined by JaronK break down when presented with the tome fighter. Qualitatively, tier 3 or 4 describes the tome fighter, but because the tome fighter is so good at fighting, quantitatively he’s on another playing field entirely. Even Tier-1 classes would struggle to survive if he decided to kill them suddenly.
To me, that doesn’t really qualify as Tier 1, it just qualifies as an exceptionally-overpowered Tier 3 or so, and is indicative of fairly poor design. The Tome series is well known, and people have even used it, but the majority of folks, even folks interested in fairly high-power, high-optimization campaigns, simply aren’t interested in a campaign so high-power that the tome fighter begins to make sense. When people do, the tome fighter can... hang with those folks, but he’s still badly limited compared to what they can do, and in my opinion and in the opinion of some others I know who have tried it, they tend to be kind of unfun, the übercharger problem taken to an extreme. One-trick ponies don’t tend to be very interesting. And the generally-incomplete nature of the Tome series generally works against it badly, and the fighter in particular shows flaws that make me question just how much testing it actually saw.
Best Answer
The tier system was introduced in dnd-4e, and is a more formal development of ideas from earlier editions.
Heroic tier: Levels 1-10.
Characters may have impressive skills, but operate on a basically human level.
Adventures take place in local environments - dungeons, towns, forests.
Threats are mostly part of the local ecology, or summoned or created. (Natural creatures, other sapient species, created mechanisms, plants.)
Paragon tier: Levels 11-20
Characters now have extreme, near-superhuman levels of their lead skills. They can accomplish things no ordinary human could (and make very difficult skill DC rolls!)
Adventures take place in a wider arena. They may save entire kingdoms, not just local villages. Their growing reputations will make them major players, even if birth and rank don't. They might lead guilds, be involved in court politics, or command soldiers.
Enemies also exist on a larger scale. Extraplanar threats become more common, and less likely to have to be summoned first. Players may meet dragons, invading warlords (and their armies), elemental or demonic creatures, colossal magical beasts.
Characters gain powers from a 'paragon class' - a development of the 'prestige class' idea from D&D 3e. The paragon class gives tightly-focused powers related to a specific concept of how to play the character's main class. (For example: A druid who specialises in driving animals berserk. A warlock who steals life from opponents. A barbarian who becomes more and more like a bear.)
Epic tier: Levels 21-30
Characters can accomplish awesome and impossible things with skills alone, before they even bother to use their class powers. Which are increasingly powerful.
Adventures are routinely extra-planar - if the characters even make their homes on their original world any more - and threats are ancient dragons, powerful planar entities, titans, or the like. Entire worlds or areas of existence may be at stake.
Each character progresses towards an 'epic destiny' - chosen by the player at L21. They gradually gain extra powers appropriate to this destined ending. (For example: becoming a god, or a transcendent energy-entity, or a heroic legend, or an immortal traveller.)
This effectively gives the GM 10 levels notice to plan the character's heroic final fate at level 30, which is where D&D 4e ends.
(The system has developed from a concept present even in very early versions of D&D, that a high-level character would eventually become immortal. The BECMI D&D is the first version with this idea, providing for immortality after level 36. Later editions had the concept of 'Epic levels', beginning at level 21. This progression tended to be slower than at levels 1-20, but to allow otherwise impossible feats, and continue to immortality. In D&D 3rd edition, Epic levels were 21-40, and Deities and Demigods provided limited rules support for becoming gods at levels 41-60.)