I have a small existing pool house (built 1988) that has electrical service ran to it from the house distribution panel. Two breaker and two separate sets of wires go to the pool house, 240 single phase power for the pool pump (on one 20 amp breaker) and 120 single phase to provide electric to various outlets, fan, etc. (on 15 amp breaker). The services is buried. I would like to put a subpanel in the pool house to have more local control over the loads. So, if I put a subpanel in the pool house, can I combine (20 amp + 15 amp) the feed on the main bus bar and install breakers? I have never seen this before, but if you combined the hots, neutrals, ground, bare ground, in the subpanel, wouldn't this maintain the same current flow through each lead?
Electrical – Question about electrical service for subpanel in pool house
electrical
Related Solutions
You can use a 3 wire feeder to supply a separate building, if...
- The installation was in compliance with a previous edition of National Electrical Code (existing premises wiring).
- An equipment grounding conductor is not run with the supply to the structure.
- There are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in each structure (bonded water, or gas piping, other conduit, etc.).
- Ground-fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the supply side of the feeders.
National Electrical Code 2014
Article 250 Grounding and Bonding
II. System Grounding
250.32 Buildings or Structures Supplied by a Feeder(s) or Branch Circuit(s).
(B) Grounded Systems.
(1) Supplied by a Feeder or Branch Circuit. An equipment grounding conductor as described in 250.118 shall be run with the supply conductors and be connected to the building or structure disconnecting means and to the grounding electrode(s). The equipment grounding conductor shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded. The equipment grounding conductor shall be sized in accordance with 250.122. Any installed grounded conductor shall not be connected to the equipment grounding conductor or to the grounding electrode(s).
Exception No 1: For installations made in compliance with previous editions of this Code that permitted such connection, the grounded conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be permitted to serve as the ground-fault return path if all of the following requirements continue to be met:
(1) An equipment grounding conductor is not run with the supply to the building or structure.
(2) There are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in each building or structure involved.
(3) Ground-fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the supply side of the feeder(s).
If the grounded conductor is used for grounding in accordance with the provision of this exception, the size of the grounded conductor shall not be smaller than the larger of either of the following:
(1) That required by 220.61
(2) That required by 250.122
Changing from a 30A breaker to a 50A breaker can only be done, if you also change the wires to 6 AWG. In which case you'll have to follow current codes, and install 6/3 with ground. Breakers (and fuses) are always sized to protect the wire connected to them, so you can't change the breaker size without also changing the wire size (unless you're going down e.g. 50A to 30A).
However, depending on what you're doing, you may not have to change the breaker at all. If the planned circuits in the structure are not going to be fully loaded, you may well be able to supply the subpanel with a 30A breaker. Just because the subpanel has 50 amperes worth of overcurrent protection, does not mean the supply breaker has to be 50A. Whether or not you actually need a 50A breaker on the supply, depends entirely on what the subpanel will be powering.
Electrical – What amp breaker for 20 Amp electrical oven and 40 Amp electrical range on same circuit
Column C
First off you'll notice the text "Column C to be used in all cases except as otherwise permitted in Note 3.)", in the title of table 220.55. This makes it simple. You have 2 appliances, so follow that over in the table, and you'll see 11 in Column C. So there you go, you can just use 11 kW. Done.
11,000 W / 240 V = 45.8333 A
So you'll need a 50 ampere breaker, and wire sized appropriately for the load.
Note 3
Note 3 says:
- Over 1 3⁄4 kW through 8 3⁄4 kW. In lieu of the method provided in Column C, it shall be permissible to add the nameplate ratings of all household cooking appliances rated more than 1 3⁄4 kW but not more than 8 3⁄4 kW and multiply the sum by the demand factors specified in Column A or Column B for the given number of appliances. Where the rating of cooking appliances falls under both Column A and Column B, the demand factors for each column shall be applied to the appliances for that column, and the results added together.
Perfect, so instead of just using the value from column C you can do math. Let's step through it.
...it shall be permissible to add the nameplate ratings of all household cooking appliances rated more than 1 3⁄4 kW but not more than 8 3⁄4 kW...
8.4 kW + 5.0 kW = 13.4 kW
...and multiply the sum by the demand factors specified in Column A or Column B for the given number of appliances...
Let's check the table again... You have 2 appliances, both between 3 1/2 and 8 3/4 kW. So You'll look at column B, and find 65%.
13.4 kW * 65% = 8.71 kW
8710 W / 240 V = 36.2916 A
So using this method you can use a 40 ampere breaker, and appropriately sized wire. However, keep in mind that if you change the equipment, you'll have to do the calculation again. So while you can use this value, you may have to upgrade the circuit later if you change equipment.
Note 4
I'm not exactly sure how note 4 comes into play, but I think it can be used if this is the only equipment on the branch circuit. Just for fun, let's run through that one too.
- Branch-Circuit Load. It shall be permissible to calculate the branch-circuit load for one range in accordance with Table 220.55. The branch-circuit load for one wall-mounted oven or one counter-mounted cooking unit shall be the nameplate rating of the appliance. The branch-circuit load for a counter-mounted cooking unit and not more than two wall-mounted ovens, all supplied from a single branch circuit and located in the same room, shall be calculated by adding the nameplate rating of the individual appliances and treating this total as equivalent to one range.
You're only concerned with the second half of this note, since you have one counter-mounted cooking unit, and one wall-mounted oven, all supplied by a single branch-circuit, and located in the same room. So you can add the nameplate values, and treat it as a single range.
8.4 kW + 5.0 kW = 13.4 kW
So you can treat the units as a single 13.4 kW range. Check the column C again, this time for a single range. You'll find a value of 8 kW. But wait... The column header says "(Not over 12 kW Rating)". Your range is 13.4 kW. That's bigger than 12 kW. Now you'll have to check note 1
- Over 12 kW through 27 kW ranges all of same rating. For ranges individually rated more than 12 kW but not more than 27 kW, the maximum demand in Column C shall be increased 5 percent for each additional kilowatt of rating or major fraction thereof by which the rating of individual ranges exceeds 12 kW.
That's easy enough.
13.4 kW - 8 kW = 5.4 kW
Since .4 is not a "major fraction", you can just use 5 kW. So you'll have to add 5% 5 times.
5% * 5 = 0.25
8000 W * 0.25 = 2000 W
8000 W + 2000 W = 10,000 W
That means you'll have to use 10 kW as your demand.
10,000 W / 240 V = 41.666 A
Which means you can use a 50 ampere breaker, and appropriately size wire.
Related Topic
- Electrical wiring question – How to get 1300 watts x2 from a 15 ampere breaker by splitting amp
- Electrical – backfeed just one leg of a service sub-panel for temporary power
- Electrical – run THHN for separate washer and dryer circuits through the same conduit
- Electrical – Wiring Pool Subpanel for Pump and Receptacles
- Electrical – Advice on wiring a pool panel from a subpanel
- Electrical – Bought a new (old) house and a new subpanel for the pool was installed. No clue if this is safe
Best Answer
National Electrical Code says that you cannot connect conductors 1 AWG or smaller in parallel (310.10(H)). Since it's not likely that the conductors between your buildings are larger than 1AWG, you cannot do what you want.
What you can do, is install a new larger double pole breaker in the main panel. Then install a new set (4 conductors) of larger conductors between the buildings, to feed a secondary panel in the pool house. Then you can feed your branch circuits from the panel in the pool house.
The size of the breaker in the main panel, and the size of the conductors between the buildings will depend on what size service you want to supply to the pool house.