Pathfinder 2e Grapple – Was the Grab Ability Nerfed and Which Version Should Be Used?

grapplepathfinder-2e

Archives of Nethys lists the Grab ability twice in the Creature Abilities section. The first one says:

Requirements The monster's last action was a success with a Strike
that lists Grab in its damage entry, or it has a creature grabbed
using this action. Effect The monster automatically Grabs the target
until the end of the monster's next turn. The creature is grabbed by
whichever body part the monster attacked with, and that body part
can't be used to Strike creatures until the grab is ended.

Using Grab extends the duration of the monster's Grab until the end of
its next turn for all creatures grabbed by it. A grabbed creature can
use the Escape action to get out of the grab, and the Grab ends for a
grabbed creatures if the monster moves away from it.

The way I understand this, if the monster attacks someone and connects, they can effectively grapple them by just spending an action, but said attempt succeeds automatically.

The second version says:

Requirements The monster's last action was a successful Strike that
lists Grab in its damage entry, or the monster has a creature grabbed
or restrained; Effect If used after a Strike, the monster attempts to
Grapple the creature using the body part it attacked with. This
attempt neither applies nor counts toward the creature's multiple
attack penalty.

The monster can instead use Grab and choose one creature it's grabbing
or restraining with an appendage that has Grab to automatically extend
that condition to the end of the monster's next turn.

The way I interpret this one is that the creature must spend an action to attempt and succeed at a grapple check to grab the target. The boon of this feature being that the attempt is not subject to the multiple attack penalty.


The first version appears to be objectively better by all metrics; it also appears in the Beastiary with a cited publication date of August 1, 2019. The second version appears in Rage of the Elements with a cited publication date of August 2, 2023.

Does the latter publication take precedence? I know Paizo is planning to change the rules for 2nd edition (2.5?); is this a change that's intended to nerf the original grab ability?

Best Answer

It is part of the Remaster

At least according to the preview documents.

The change was most likely made so abilities that give you +X against Trip, Grab (etc) become meaningful.

The new version is supposed to be used when the Remastered officially arrives, somewhere in November.

It is not really a nerf, especially at high levels

In higher levels, monsters have such high Athletics values that they will usually crit with the Grapple check, resulting in the target being restrained. Which is quite a lot worse for PCs than a simple grab.

A Kraken has 38 in Athletics, while a Champion of the same level has a Fortitude DC of 40 (10 base, Con +4, Proficiency +28, Item +2). The Kraken will grab on a roll of 2-11, restrain 12-20, and fail only on a 1. And this is against a dedicated frontliner, now imagine a puny Wizard.

As ESCE writes in a comment, at lower levels and when you meet monsters of lower level than you, it is actually advantageous.

Related Topic